Serious TSE Problems

[blindvisionary]

I have attempted to play TSE multiple times, as it is rather good in plot and graphics, but there always seems to be an error that crashes the program about an hour after execution. I've found the most common point where this error occurs is after a battle, at the victory screen. When you click to continue, the program will sometimes crash (And I've found it crashes more often if you click before 4+ seconds after the victory music has ended). Other places I have experienced the bug is after 4+ seconds on the victory screen, before cutscenes start (activation of cutscenes?), and just walking around maps with enemies. I have tried this game on multiple computers (all running WinXP and rather high-end), and the same error occurs.
The actual error reads something like: program referenced address XXXXXXX:XXXXXXXX, memory could not be read. I'll play for an hour and find the actual error so I can post it.
Hopefully this isn't a native MMF1.5 error that causes the same problem in TSE2.
It's a good game, but if this problem isn't fixed I can't see myself being able to play through it, or purchasing the sequel.

Other concerns:
The scrolling seems to force the window to center based on the upper-left pixel of the [what I assume is] 640*480 screen. This means that if the window is resized, at any scrolling cutscene the window returns to this location (the initial location of the UL pixel). I have had this force the window into the bottom-right of the desktop - and off screen. It sounds like the error would lie in MMF1.5, though. Perhaps you can disable the resize controls on the edge of the window, or maximize the screen initially?

---I'll work on getting the exact output of the error.---

- blindvisionary

[blindvisionary]

My new laptop displays this different message:

Multimedia Fusion Stand Alone Application has encountered a problem and needs to close. We are sorry for the inconvenience.

The error report is as follows:
<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-16"?>
<DATABASE>
<EXE NAME="The Spirit Engine.exe" FILTER="GRABMI_FILTER_PRIVACY">
<MATCHING_FILE NAME="cncs232.dll" SIZE="285696" CHECKSUM="0xF22528C9" BIN_FILE_VERSION="2.5.109.0" BIN_PRODUCT_VERSION="2.5.109.0" PRODUCT_VERSION="2;5;109;0" FILE_DESCRIPTION="Multimedia Fusion Runtime Library" COMPANY_NAME="Clickteam" FILE_VERSION="2.5.109.0" INTERNAL_NAME="CNCS232" LEGAL_COPYRIGHT="Copyright ? 1996-2002 Clickteam" VERFILEDATEHI="0x0" VERFILEDATELO="0x0" VERFILEOS="0x4" VERFILETYPE="0x2" MODULE_TYPE="WIN32" PE_CHECKSUM="0x0" LINKER_VERSION="0x0" UPTO_BIN_FILE_VERSION="2.5.109.0" UPTO_BIN_PRODUCT_VERSION="2.5.109.0" LINK_DATE="07/11/2002 11:57:08" UPTO_LINK_DATE="07/11/2002 11:57:08" VER_LANGUAGE="English (United States) [0x409]" />
<MATCHING_FILE NAME="The Spirit Engine.exe" SIZE="27310685" CHECKSUM="0x36AD2C42" BIN_FILE_VERSION="2.5.111.0" BIN_PRODUCT_VERSION="2.5.111.0" FILE_DESCRIPTION="Multimedia Fusion Stand Alone Application" COMPANY_NAME="Clickteam" FILE_VERSION="2.5.111.0" ORIGINAL_FILENAME="cncrt32.exe" INTERNAL_NAME="CNCRT32.EXE" LEGAL_COPYRIGHT="Copyright ? 1996-2002 Clickteam" VERFILEDATEHI="0x0" VERFILEDATELO="0x0" VERFILEOS="0x10001" VERFILETYPE="0x1" MODULE_TYPE="WIN32" PE_CHECKSUM="0x0" LINKER_VERSION="0x0" UPTO_BIN_FILE_VERSION="2.5.111.0" UPTO_BIN_PRODUCT_VERSION="2.5.111.0" LINK_DATE="10/31/2002 07:40:46" UPTO_LINK_DATE="10/31/2002 07:40:46" VER_LANGUAGE="English (United States) [0x409]" />
<MATCHING_FILE NAME="The Spiritual Compendium.exe" SIZE="1051734" CHECKSUM="0x36AD2C42" BIN_FILE_VERSION="2.5.111.0" BIN_PRODUCT_VERSION="2.5.111.0" FILE_DESCRIPTION="Multimedia Fusion Stand Alone Application" COMPANY_NAME="Clickteam" FILE_VERSION="2.5.111.0" ORIGINAL_FILENAME="cncrt32.exe" INTERNAL_NAME="CNCRT32.EXE" LEGAL_COPYRIGHT="Copyright ? 1996-2002 Clickteam" VERFILEDATEHI="0x0" VERFILEDATELO="0x0" VERFILEOS="0x10001" VERFILETYPE="0x1" MODULE_TYPE="WIN32" PE_CHECKSUM="0x0" LINKER_VERSION="0x0" UPTO_BIN_FILE_VERSION="2.5.111.0" UPTO_BIN_PRODUCT_VERSION="2.5.111.0" LINK_DATE="10/31/2002 07:40:46" UPTO_LINK_DATE="10/31/2002 07:40:46" VER_LANGUAGE="English (United States) [0x409]" />
<MATCHING_FILE NAME="TSE103exe.exe" SIZE="40509462" CHECKSUM="0x30E82351" BIN_FILE_VERSION="2.0.0.19" BIN_PRODUCT_VERSION="2.0.0.19" PRODUCT_VERSION="2, 0, 0, 19" FILE_DESCRIPTION="" COMPANY_NAME="" PRODUCT_NAME="The Spirit Engine Install Program" FILE_VERSION="2, 0, 0, 19" ORIGINAL_FILENAME="" INTERNAL_NAME="" LEGAL_COPYRIGHT="" VERFILEDATEHI="0x0" VERFILEDATELO="0x0" VERFILEOS="0x40004" VERFILETYPE="0x1" MODULE_TYPE="WIN32" PE_CHECKSUM="0x0" LINKER_VERSION="0x0" UPTO_BIN_FILE_VERSION="2.0.0.19" UPTO_BIN_PRODUCT_VERSION="2.0.0.19" LINK_DATE="10/14/2003 07:48:43" UPTO_LINK_DATE="10/14/2003 07:48:43" VER_LANGUAGE="English (United States) [0x409]" />
<MATCHING_FILE NAME="Uninstal.exe" SIZE="74781" CHECKSUM="0x79A2195D" MODULE_TYPE="WIN32" PE_CHECKSUM="0x0" LINKER_VERSION="0x0" LINK_DATE="10/14/2003 07:45:14" UPTO_LINK_DATE="10/14/2003 07:45:14" />
</EXE>
<EXE NAME="ModFusion.COX" FILTER="GRABMI_FILTER_THISFILEONLY">
<MATCHING_FILE NAME="ModFusion.cox" SIZE="149506" CHECKSUM="0xFA10048D" BIN_FILE_VERSION="1.0.0.0" BIN_PRODUCT_VERSION="1.0.0.0" PRODUCT_VERSION="1, 0, 0, 0" FILE_DESCRIPTION="ModFusion" COMPANY_NAME="Syntesis Entertainment" PRODUCT_NAME="" FILE_VERSION="2.00" ORIGINAL_FILENAME="ModFusion.cox" INTERNAL_NAME="MODFUSION" LEGAL_COPYRIGHT="Copyright ? 2003 Josh Whelchel" VERFILEDATEHI="0x0" VERFILEDATELO="0x0" VERFILEOS="0x10001" VERFILETYPE="0x1" MODULE_TYPE="WIN32" PE_CHECKSUM="0x29ACC" LINKER_VERSION="0x0" UPTO_BIN_FILE_VERSION="1.0.0.0" UPTO_BIN_PRODUCT_VERSION="1.0.0.0" LINK_DATE="11/22/2003 23:33:04" UPTO_LINK_DATE="11/22/2003 23:33:04" VER_LANGUAGE="English (United States) [0x409]" />
</EXE>
<EXE NAME="kernel32.dll" FILTER="GRABMI_FILTER_THISFILEONLY">
<MATCHING_FILE NAME="kernel32.dll" SIZE="984064" CHECKSUM="0xF12E1D4A" BIN_FILE_VERSION="5.1.2600.2945" BIN_PRODUCT_VERSION="5.1.2600.2945" PRODUCT_VERSION="5.1.2600.2945" FILE_DESCRIPTION="Windows NT BASE API Client DLL" COMPANY_NAME="Microsoft Corporation" PRODUCT_NAME="Microsoft? Windows? Operating System" FILE_VERSION="5.1.2600.2945 (xpsp_sp2_gdr.060704-2349)" ORIGINAL_FILENAME="kernel32" INTERNAL_NAME="kernel32" LEGAL_COPYRIGHT="? Microsoft Corporation. All rights reserved." VERFILEDATEHI="0x0" VERFILEDATELO="0x0" VERFILEOS="0x40004" VERFILETYPE="0x2" MODULE_TYPE="WIN32" PE_CHECKSUM="0xF724D" LINKER_VERSION="0x50001" UPTO_BIN_FILE_VERSION="5.1.2600.2945" UPTO_BIN_PRODUCT_VERSION="5.1.2600.2945" LINK_DATE="07/05/2006 10:55:00" UPTO_LINK_DATE="07/05/2006 10:55:00" VER_LANGUAGE="English (United States) [0x409]" />
</EXE>
</DATABASE>


---You might want to copy that into Notepad so it's easier to read---
Unfortunately, the rest of the report is modules/hex values that have disabled copy/paste, and as it would take me years to type it out manually, I am not going to. If you need certain information from the report, I could type that up for you.

-blindvisionary

[Jimbob]

Do you have the latest patch for the game?
I do recall there being some crashing issues with the first version of the game, but I thought they were all rectified with the patch.

[blindvisionary]

The patch is an upgrade from older versions, correct? I just downloaded the game a couple of days ago. It's the latest version, 1.03.

[Jimbob]

The latest version is actually 104, if you look at the downloads section there is a patch download. Because the main game download is so large, I think Mark has to rely on whatever version people have hosted and then patch it up. It's only a small download though, hopefully it'll help.

[Mark Pay]

Thanks for reporting the problems. 104 patched only the Magenik fault, so although I would recommend downloading it anyway, it won't help with crashes. Jimbob is right that I have to rely on externally hosted versions for the large main file ( 103 ), but can supply the much smaller 103->104 patch myself.

I believe it was 103 that contained the update to Modfusion ( the music extension ), which solved some previous crash issues. It is possible that it is continuing to cause some, or it could be something else within MMF. I believe that Josh has discontinued that version, and TSE-2 is currently using Modfusion Ex, which in turn is likely to be phased out as Josh wants to switch the soundtrack away from mod based.
One of the downsides to using so many code libraries like MMF and its extensions is that, unfortunately, when a problem arises in one of them there is little that you can do to resolve the matter. I'm not sure how useful that error message is as it seems to basically be a list of programs referenced by the TSE main executable.
Basic MMF 1.5 executables tend to run without problem on a wide range of PCs, although once you've been using it for long enough, you tend to pick up some fun ways of making it crash as programmer. Thankfully reports of crashes with TSE seem to have been in a small minority, but they are still there. It is unusual for it to fail on several computers, unless they have some common configuration. Corrupted files and/or interferring malware are a possibility.

The scrolling issue is an odd one. I have dug up the source file from my old computer ( yuck, it's so painful to look at the terrible old graphics and code. )and there is nothing in there that explicitly sets the position of the window. The unusual window size ( 490x400 ) may have some effect, but I expect it to be the work of gremlins in the underlying code / extensions. Without conducting some trial and error exercises on an affected machine I am not sure how else to narrow down the cause. If you're interested, I can try recompiling a version of build 104 without music ( painful, but perhaps worth a try ) for you to test and see intially whether the old music extension is still causing any crashes.

[blindvisionary]

Unfortunately, all of the real information is in the section that is disabled from copy/paste. There's nothing I can really do to send you that.

I think that the crashing problem is definitely one involving the music, as the program will only crash where music changes, but only when other scripts are running at the same time (eg. at the end of the Blob level, a script must remove the blob at the same time music changes, and the game crashes almost every time at this point.). Malware is not the reason, as the current computer I ran it on was brand new only days ago, and I have not done anything that would expose it to malware. The two computers that TSE was run on are not similar in any way (different brands and hardware), other than that they are both running WinXP. If you could compile 104 without music, I would be willing to test it. I have a feeling that Modfusion is at the heart of the problem.

[Mark Pay]

Thanks for agreeing to help hunt down to source of the crash. Much as it hurts ( ), I have stripped the music out of 104 and uploaded the executable to http://www.thespiritengine.com/Files/TSEBuild0615musicstrip.exe.

[blindvisionary]

I know what you mean. Music is an important part of any game.
I have the file now, so you can remove the link. I'm going to play for a while and see if I encounter the same error.

[blindvisionary]

Unfortunately, it seems to be the fault of the music extension. I played through some of the places where the game had the most difficulty, and tried everything I could to crash TSE, but it didn't.
And by the way, the scrolling problem occurred on both machines, as well. I don't know if I made that apparent.
---After mentioning the scrolling error, I decided to test it on the new patch. Interestingly enough, the problem did not occur, no matter how much I provoked it (resizing the window, changing screen resolution). It appears Modfusion is responsible for this issue as well, though I don't understand how that could be possible.---

[Mark Pay]

That is good news. Thanks for testing it. The change in the scrolling issue may be the result of compiling the game in a more recent version of MMF 1.5. When I first compiled TSE, Windows XP was relatively new.

What I can do now is set aside some time at the weekend and try to replace Modfusion with Modfusion Ex, which will be a very time consuming and dull task, but hopefully worth it.

[blindvisionary]

It makes more sense that MMF would be the cause of the scrolling error. Fortunately, it seems they fixed it.
Hopefully Modfusion eX will be more stable on my computer.

[Mark Pay]

Just an update to let you know that I'm still working on this, but it's taking longer than I had hoped, and I was a bit busy this weekend. The commands don't translate one-to-one from modfusion to modfusion ex, plus without any global code I have to make the fix 90 times. On top of this, MMF actually crashed while I was editing, something I haven't had it do for 2 years whilst working on TSE-2. Argh.

[go1orange]

The automatic centering of the window is still hapeneing. Even though it's not that annoying it's a bit painful

[DarkEmperor]

I downloaded the patch from 1.03 to 1.04, but I didn't know that there was no music.

Is there any other way to more practically get the music for TSE(I have dial-up ; Est. finish time 4:10:17)?

I would appreciate any help,

Thanks